HRM Conversations

I hope this is the last post in the Hebraic Roots Movement series…

Although the journey to searching the truth in regards to the HRM doctrines was perilous, and at times downright painful, I thank the Lord for leading me through it.

My faith only strengthened and I have developed an even more acute appreciation for God’s Word and its power to reveal to us his truths.

The conversations I want to focus on in this post are a few of the ones I had with HRM believers and some that I’ve had with my Heavenly Father.

In my last post I talked about how HRM associated ministries use Christmas and Easter as stepping stones into the HRM. I watched a video called “Sunburned” explaining the pagan origins of Christmas and Easter.

Another one of my friends made a comment on my last post, saying how her interest was also peaked after she watched a video on Halloween origins.

After watching the “Sunburned” video, I started following two HRM ministries on Facebook (119 Ministries and Passion For Truth) and was a witness to many comments like “Christmas can be a hard time for us and our families, but we should use this opportunity for spreading the truth.”

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I began listening to a few teachings produced by 119 Ministries and Passion For Truth. My Facebook friend also did not waste her time suggesting several teachings unique to the HRM doctrines.

As I’ve mentioned before, red flags kept popping up in my head – numerous Scripture verses that kept coming up in my memory. I would bring them to the attention of my Facebook friend. However, the one response that I kept hearing was this:

You misinterpret these verses because you have a Western mindset. You need to have the HEBRAIC MINDSET in order to understand the Scriptures rightfully/correctly.”

What? Really? This entire time I was reading my Bible wrong? Was I saved by a wrongfully interpreted Gospel? Is everything I believe in a lie?

Oh yes…. This was the first argument I heard, as I presented the many verses I believed were CLEAR that a Gentile believer in Jesus is not under an obligation to keep the Torah…

You see, the HRM leaders focus on making believers doubt their theology.

From convincing a believer to start doubting his or her teachers/pastors because these teachers/pastors were educated in Western seminaries, (therefore their interpretation of the Bible is Western = wrong), to persuading a believer to trust the HRM teachers’ (“Hebraic mindset”) interpretations of the Bible verses, because THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO HAVE IT RIGHT…

They are the true remnant of the one true body of believers in Yeshua/Jesus. Everybody else is wrong…

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At this point, I asked this Facebook friend of mine to give me some time to think and pray. She graciously agreed.

This is where the real journey started. An intense time of searching the Word with prayer and fasting.

I did not want to seek the council of my pastor because, at this point, the seed of doubt on his correct interpretation of the Bible had already been planted. Moreover, I already knew his answer and did not want any biased opinions.

It was just me, my Bible, and the Holy Spirit…

Days and weeks of praying for The Lord to guide me to a clear answer.

And He kept leading me to revisiting passages like Acts 15, the entire epistles to Galatians, Hebrews, and Romans…

A clear answer was given to me by the Holy Spirit’s guidance and through God’s Word…

I contacted my Facebook friend to share with her my answer and with hopes of convincing her that HER beliefs and doctrine are false.

All I kept hearing back was that I misinterpret and twist what the Scriptures say because of my “Western mindset.” If only I start having the “Hebraic mindset” I would understand what God was really saying through his Word…

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….So…. God allowed the NT to be originally written in Greek. He also allowed thousands of years to go by with the majority of Christian believers – those who were persecuted and martyred in different parts of the world – and only now there is a “true remnant” that will see Him, while everyone else who ever placed his/her faith in Jesus but did not believe in keeping the Torah will perish… Right…

I could go on forever, mentioning all the other erroneous HRM doctrines like the “Two House” theology, that believers in Jesus become Israel, and the ridiculous belief by which they claim that the name Jesus comes from Zeus, and how they believe that the only correct name for God is YHVH (or variations of Yahweh and Yeshua). You can also read this article from Watchman.org explaining the HRM.

However, since this post is getting quite long, and since I do not want to focus so much on a false doctrine, I want to finish by mentioning a few profound truths I have discovered during this journey.

The “Grace only” believers, as the HRM followers often call us, do not believe we can sin all we want after being born-again.

A true born-again believer is known by his or her fruits. And what are the fruits of the Holy Spirit living in a born-again believer?  Galatians 5:22-23 tells us, “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.”

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Unfortunately, I failed to see these fruits in the HRM believers I have been conversing with… My last conversation with them was especially disturbing…

I felt compelled to comment on a Facebook post made by my HRM friend, where she said this in regards to a “grace only” friend she just blocked:
“I tell you, these grace only people are the most cowardly, the most nasty people I’ve ever met. Figures. Had to block one of them just now. Enough of spreading satanic filth already. Lurking around in the dark behind every one of my posts like a creep, commenting with unsound, unbiblical nonsense…if you are ANTI-TORAH and if you don’t want to see me post anything about the Torah, please remove yourself from my friend’s list…this is where I draw the line. Much appreciated…thank you.”

Long story short, I commented that I am just sad to see the HRM people taking on the role of God and deciding that only the “Torah-keeping” believers will be saved.

The fruits of many of her HRM friends were evident from this point on. One said that I am “just plain not agreeing with the Father” since I have done my research and chose to reject the truth, and that I am “serving the Satan.”

In response to me saying that I am firm in my beliefs because I have done much prayer and reading the Word by the guidance of the Holy Spirit, one HRM believer said, “funny, how these people blame the Holy Spirit for the lies that they listen to… I would think that would be the same thing as Blasphemy… especially when its not the Holy Spirit… since the Holy Spirit does not give mixed messages to people. I am just going to make a point to realize that these people will be the ones who throw us into courts and jails.. they will side with the wicked and cast stones at us cause we speak the truth of what it says in the bible.”

My Facebook friend agreed with him saying, “You are right… This is what we are up against, satanic deception at its finest.”

Then they both agreed on this, “they are already getting pastors to teach their congregations that is okay to report your fellow church member or neighbor to the police… & this is happening in mainstream churches… so the mainstream is getting ready to cast the Torah Keepers in prison or jail… those who actually see what is happening will leave… while the rest would be willing to throw their own family members before the judges and courts thinking they are doing God a favor. I will find that scripture… but it talks about family members betraying one another and that…”

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Sorry to break it to you, friend. I have no intention of throwing anyone in jail…

And the finale… “What makes you think your special Tanya Feygin.. where you think you can ride on Jesus’ cloak and not do anything? Self-righteous.. you think your words will save you… God see’s your heart… Jeremiah 17:9…. ‘The heart is more deceitful than anything else and mortally sick. Who can fathom it?’ — that is what he says about your heart..& everyone to be exact… I am only united with those who obey the Father in heaven… the others are NOT my family. Yahweh is separating the goats from the sheep… & those who reject the Torah/ the feasts/ Sabbath/ laws & commands are the GOATS.”

“It’s okay… Tanya is deceived, she wont hear anything that is being said.. All we can do now is pray that the Father do whatever needs to be done to deal with her.

My Facebook friend: “That’s why I don’t bother anymore.  Just not worth it.”

HRM believer: “exactly there are other people who need to hear the truth joyfully… lets waste our time with them, let the unclean fools stay unclean. he he.”

And that is another reason, my readers, why I felt led by the Holy Spirit to write about my journey… To expose the HRM further and to warn any believers in Jesus that they are after you…

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One of my readers made this comment in regards to the HRM:

My experiences on the 119 page were not good. I had some real questions without intent to attack and was called a pig, lost, and a rebel towards God. I will say I have some friends who are Torah followers that are great people as well.
What I have noticed though is that when the obsession with law takes hold it tends to dominate every aspect of their faith. I’ve seen very little mention of reaching the lost. Usually what I see is pointing out the lost and the wrath of God that’s reserved for them. It’s a sneaky tactic of the enemy. He gets people to obsess so much about the law they lose sight of faith, grace, love and perhaps the person of Christ. The law becomes their idol. I wish I could have better things to say but this is what I personally have noticed.
To put it real simply, some folks believe Christ died so we could be freed from the condemnation of the law, while others believe He died so that we can now be perfect law keepers. I came to the realization that no matter how perfect I was I still would be a miserable failure without the atonement of Christ.”

So true…

All this put aside, no matter how much the HRM believers will attempt to justify their zeal for keeping the Torah, the fact remains the same: they diminish Jesus’ sacrifice. They say you need Jesus + something.

NO.

To me Jesus is everything

Links to more resources:
Frequently Asked Questions About Hebrew Roots http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs.htm
What Is The Hebrew Roots Movement? http://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrew-roots.html
Jews For Jesus http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/havurah/v04-n01/jewishroots
Bewitching Believers Through The Hebrew Roots Movement http://www.thebereancall.org/content/january-2014-bewitching-believers-hebrew-roots

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6 thoughts on “HRM Conversations

  1. Based on the fact that I was tagged to this blog through FB, I’m making the assumption that the blogger wishes me to read her post. Wow, Tanya, you sure are doing what you do best…take things out of context. Because of this proven track record, I’d like to make a few things clear. First off, I never claimed to be in the HRM as you claim, secondly, I don’t subscribe to the sacred name doctrine, thirdly, I don’t agree with everything other people teach and fourthly, I don’t control what other people think or say.

    Perhaps you should make the context of the above conversation clear to your readers, though, to be fair. The supposed comment above regarding believers not being worth it is grossly misconstrued, sadly much like most of your theology, my friend. I have stated this to you before and I’m reiterating this once again, seeing how it still isn’t clear…the back and forth arguments with you are not worth the time or effort, not you yourself.

    The erroneous doctrines of the HRM (i.e. Israel and the two house theology)?…wow, I see that you still just don’t get it 🙁 as I would expect. I’m not sure if you take what people say out of context intentionally or if you are just not listening (God is the judge of that)…but it has nothing to do with any movement and everything to do with taking Scripture in its proper context (in every aspect of the word…cultural, linguistic, socio-economic, theological, philosophical). You have made it very clear that you do not agree, so I stopped discussing this topic with you. In addition to this, you have not answered all of my questions regarding many things discussed, nor can you, and I understand.

    If you were truly as loving as you try to portray yourself to be, sis, you would have stopped pursuing constant arguments in trying to prove me wrong when I respectfully asked you in our conversation back on February 1st when I said the following:

    “I thank you for all your prayers and I never stopped praying for your eyes to be opened. I did, however, stop with the presenting of arguments for discussion, seeing how it was going nowhere. If you are really bothered by the content of my FB, in all seriousness, you can filter my posts. Like I said earlier, this is an issue we will have to agree to disagree on because I do not wish to strife with you or Ian over this. You do whatever the Spirit leads you to do in your life and I will continue to do the same in mine….arguing over this is just senseless. Shalom and YHVH bless you.”

    Or this conversation on January 31st: “Tanya, you and I are disagree on this, clearly this fact has been established…can we finally leave it at that, or do we have to continue on with the wasting of our time? You suggested that instead of focusing on the Torah I should focus more on the lost…should you not do the same instead of spending an exorbitant amount of your time debating someone like me? Or do you not believe that I am truly born again, and are currently damned to Hell?”

    Of course you would never think to post the above in your blog, as it would serve contrary to your purpose of presenting “HRM” believers in a bad light. It always makes me chuckle to hear people like you accuse the Torah keepers as being the instigators and the imposers, when general experience has clearly proven otherwise. It sure is a blessing knowing that it is Abba Who Is the only Truth Giver and rightful judge and not you, praise His Holy Name. I say this with much love, sister. 🙂

    I really don’t understand why as a grace filled believer, claiming to be full of Christ’s love, you (like many others claiming the same) just can’t seem to let go and stop the instigation of arguments on the FB pages of Torah keepers. Is this really how you love, Tanya? I never imposed my beliefs or revelations on you, as you claim. I discussed with you what Scripture states and on several occasions stated to do your own research and just follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. Remember this conversation between you, Ian and me, back on February 1st?: “Thank you, Ian, I feel the same way. I understand that we don’t agree on these things and that’s fine, like I told Tanya too, just follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. If you think I’m wrong just pray for me, just as I will pray for you guys. There’s no need to further argue over the same thing, it’s just a waste of our time. Thank you for befriending me on FB, I’ve enjoyed your guys’ company, despite our disagreements. I wish you and your family all of Abba’s best in Yeshua’s Name!!! Shalom to you all.”

    Again, please, if there is anything I post on my page that is in disagreement with your theology, like I asked you before, please skip it over, set your settings to not see my posts or unfriend me altogether…no hard feelings at all. As always, love you and continuing to pray for YHVH to open your eyes, in Yeshua’s Name. Amen. 🙂

    1. Thank you for your comment, Karolina, and for “making things clear.”

      I would like to add some things. HRM is a big umbrella encompassing MANY groups that may not agree with each other. Their essence is the same and you clearly state this as well in your comment. The believers in these groups feel that only THEY understand the Scripture in its proper context. As you said, you believe that understanding the Bible has “everything to do with taking Scripture in its proper context (in every aspect of the word…cultural, linguistic, socio-economic, theological, philosophical).” Essentially, one needs a “Hebraic mindset” to properly understand the Scriptures. Hence, the HRM. My focus was not to dissect the HRM and to describe EVERY group that falls under the big umbrella, but to give a general overview.

      Also, my intent was not to put ALL of the HRM believers in a bad light. I did state that there are many loving believers who keep the Torah. I felt led by the Holy Spirit to write these posts in order to share my experience and to further expose this false teaching. Although most of our conversations were private, I did publicly post stuff that triggered questions among my family and my friends (like how Christmas is pagan, etc). I included the last conversation in this post because it was so clearly representative of the lack of love some of the HRM believers have and it sheds light on what happens to those people who focus on the flesh and not on the Spirit…

      I am sorry if my posts appeared “unloving.” I am learning and growing in Spirit and truth everyday only by the grace of God. He is the one who changes me and, please, continue praying for me to have more love towards all people. I will continue praying for you as well.
      Love, Tanya

      1. Tanya, again, it’s not about “they only” understanding the Scripture, or that certain truths are only revealed to them…ANYONE is free to understand the Scripture IN ITS PROPER CONTEXT. I guess you’re just not grasping this concept. You are trying to understand a Hebraic book filled with culture specific concepts and idioms from a completely foreign perspective…this is precisely why you are missing the mark, over and over. If you know anything about the science of anthropology you should know that in field study, the bonafide, widely accepted, method of study of a particular culture is through an assimilative approach. Yet this is something you deny and reject in the study of the most important book known to humanity. Surely you can see this even in your own culture, as I’m sure you use many linguistic idioms which are foreign to those born in the US, and vice versa. Until you truly grasp this, you will never be able to delve deep into Scripture.

        1. I AM able to dive deep into the most and the only one supernatural book ever written, one that TRANSCENDS cultural boundaries and one that ANYONE is able to understand, no matter in what part of the world he or she is in… If you believe that the Bible is not supernatural and that you need the Hebraic mindset to fully understand it, that is your opinion and your right…

          My understanding of the Scriptures is dependent on the Holy Spirit, not on anyone else’s understanding.

          “I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and YOU DO NOT NEED ANYONE TO TEACH YOU. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.” 1 John 2:26-27

          “Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to ALL NATIONS, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith.” Romans 16:25-26

          “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.” John 14:26

          Nowhere in the Scriptures do I find that I need to have a Hebraic mindset to understand God’s Word. NOWHERE. Again, the Bible is unlike any other book in the world and your correlation to anthropological studies does apply to any other book in the world written by men from other cultures BUT NOT THE BIBLE…

          “For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12

          I pray that you will understand this, dear sister.

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